Prog Wars

The Ministry of Information draws attention to a bit of a spat between Steven Wilson of Porcupine Tree and Roine Stolt of The Flower Kings.

Steven Wilson:

Bands like the Flower Kings and Transatlantic? The DEATH of progressive music. These are the bands that reinforce every prejudice people have about progressive rock: old-fashioned, pompous, pretentious, hung-up on sci-fi concepts � that for me is rubbish.

Roine Stolt:

What he present is his opinion that we are the 'death of progressive rock', it is not that nice a statement really. I suppose he's trying to say that bands like us scare the younger audience or the hip crowd and press away, that he now apparently is eager to please, it is in his 'marketing plan'.

I don't like to see musicians slagging each off in public, especially when it escalates to claims that some bands have no right to exist. Porcupine Tree and The Flower Kings are trying to do quite different things; why can't they just leave it at that? Leave that sort of behaviour to louts like Liam Gallagher or the now-sacked bassist of The Darkness.

It reminds me of some of the endless flamewars the Marillion mailing list Freaks, a few years back. Why do people that prefer a more modern streamlined progressive-tinged sound feel the need to constantly condemn those bands who stick more closely to a 70's template? I'd still much rather hear a slightly derivative copy of 70s Yes or Pink Floyd than any one of the endless production line of overhyped third-rate copies of XTC or The Jam that infest the present-day music scene.

Posted by TimHall at December 09, 2005 11:35 PM | TrackBack

Comments

Remember, the questioner singled-out TFK & Transatlantic specifically, and SW merely responded in the same terms. Apart from three sentences, SW seems to have been talking about contemporary 'prog' acts in general, *for example* Transatlantic and TFK, not solely those two bands. In the context of comments he's been making for years, it's not personal criticism of Stardust-Flower Stolt.

Why condemn? Because lazy journalists and the general public associate the truly progressive bands with regressive 'prog' clones of 70s bands (which were bad enough then, never mind regurgitated now) - they're not aware of a distinction. Hence, I genuinely believe the existence of such bands has harmed the careers of progressive (not 'prog'!) bands like Porcupine Tree.

As I sort-of said in the main piece, I like Transatlantic (not TFK), but I don't think their music has *value* (whatever that means!).

Posted by: NRT on December 10, 2005 08:58 AM

Interesting. And yet, Wilson treads the same atmospheric terrain as these bands.

And he's produced Marillion.

Posted by: Scott on December 10, 2005 05:36 PM

Any band who's music was experimental in nature and isn't shy about playing in time signatures that can't be easily danced to or writing 20 minute epic pieces could and should be deemed progresive. After all... what does the word "progressive" actually mean? I hope that it will continue to mean "forward thinking" rather than "ELP, Genesis, or Yes sounding". SW & Porcupine Tree are a great example of what a progressive band should be in that it doesn't even conform to the format of its own genre. Progressive is a word to describe the listeners more than it is the bands. They are what keep this music alive... and not the memory of a few twangy gems Sid Barret plunked out 40 years ago.

Posted by: Jammiwam on December 10, 2005 08:30 PM

Steve Wilson produced Fish (Sunsets on Empire), not Marillion themselves. SoE is really more mainstream rock that prog, not that it isn't Fish's best album after "Vigil". SW also wrote a lot of the music.

Actually some people in the Marillion camp have been slagging off "prog", to the anger of some of their older fans (the flamewars on that topic were the main reason I quit the Freaks mailing list).

Posted by: Tim Hall on December 10, 2005 10:00 PM


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Roine Stolt: What he present is his opinion that we are the 'death of progressive rock', it is not that nice a statement really. I suppose he's trying to say that bands like us scare the younger audience or the hip crowd and press away, that he now apparently is eager to please, it is in his 'marketing plan'. I don't like to see musicians slagging each off in public, especially when it escalates to claims that some bands have no right to exist. Porcupine Tree and The Flower Kings are trying to do quite different things; why can't they just leave it at that? Leave that sort of behaviour to louts like Liam Gallagher or the now-sacked bassist of The Darkness. It reminds me of some of the endless flamewars the Marillion mailing list Freaks, a few years back. Why do people that prefer a more modern streamlined progressive-tinged sound feel the need to constantly condemn those bands who stick more closely to a 70's template? I'd still much rather hear a slightly derivative copy of 70s Yes or Pink Floyd than any one of the endless production line of overhyped third-rate copies of XTC or The Jam that infest the present-day music scene. Posted by TimHall at December 09, 2005 11:35 PM \| TrackBack Comments Remember, the questioner singled-out TFK & Transatlantic specifically, and SW merely responded in the same terms. Apart from three sentences, SW seems to have been talking about contemporary 'prog' acts in general, for example Transatlantic and TFK, not solely those two bands. In the context of comments he's been making for years, it's not personal criticism of Stardust-Flower Stolt. Why condemn? Because lazy journalists and the general public associate the truly progressive bands with regressive 'prog' clones of 70s bands (which were bad enough then, never mind regurgitated now) - they're not aware of a distinction. Hence, I genuinely believe the existence of such bands has harmed the careers of progressive (not 'prog'!) bands like Porcupine Tree. As I sort-of said in the main piece, I like Transatlantic (not TFK), but I don't think their music has value (whatever that means!). Posted by: NRT on December 10, 2005 08:58 AM Interesting. And yet, Wilson treads the same atmospheric terrain as these bands. And he's produced Marillion. Posted by: Scott on December 10, 2005 05:36 PM Any band who's music was experimental in nature and isn't shy about playing in time signatures that can't be easily danced to or writing 20 minute epic pieces could and should be deemed progresive. After all... what does the word "progressive" actually mean? I hope that it will continue to mean "forward thinking" rather than "ELP, Genesis, or Yes sounding". SW & Porcupine Tree are a great example of what a progressive band should be in that it doesn't even conform to the format of its own genre. Progressive is a word to describe the listeners more than it is the bands. They are what keep this music alive... and not the memory of a few twangy gems Sid Barret plunked out 40 years ago. Posted by: Jammiwam on December 10, 2005 08:30 PM Steve Wilson produced Fish (Sunsets on Empire), not Marillion themselves. SoE is really more mainstream rock that prog, not that it isn't Fish's best album after "Vigil". SW also wrote a lot of the music. Actually some people in the Marillion camp have been slagging off "prog", to the anger of some of their older fans (the flamewars on that topic were the main reason I quit the Freaks mailing list). Posted by: Tim Hall on December 10, 2005 10:00 PM Post a comment Name: Email Address: URL: Comments: Remember info?	Links of the day 10 Most Overrated Albums From BBC 6 Music. Coldplay! The Smiths! Oasis! Pete Knobhead Docherty! Who am I to disagree? More Ghost Reveries The Ministry of Information has another review of Opeth's new album. 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